INTERVIEW: ANDY DIGGLE
Interview By Jonathan Ellis

It wasn't that long ago that Andy Diggle was shaking things up as an editor for 2000AD, but working on other peoples stories wasn't enough. All the while Andy kept at his writing and made pitches throughout the industry. It was when DC gave Andy the chance to revamp an old property about an outcast military group named The Losers that he really got his chance to shine. Since then Andy has been hailed as a breakout talent, been subject to a number of positive reviews and even been acclaimed by Entertainment Weekly. Andy's latest project is a revamp of one of DC's most philosophical creations, the Swamp Thing. A new series about everyone's favourite big stinky green earth elemental that hits stores March 3rd.

Now I haven't been paying attention since the end of Alan Moore's run, so let me know if I'm setting this up right. Since coming to acceptance with being a plant elemental, Swamp Thing has gained even greater power, becoming one with the Earth itself and having power over all four elements. He sired a daughter, who has elemental powers of her own. And at some point the consciousness of Alec Holland was stripped away from Swamp Thing, leaving him a bit off-balance, and he is now determined to confront his daughter whose very existence affects the astral plane of the Green in adverse ways. And in hopes of keeping the world from getting thrown out of whack, John Constantine has resurrected the spirit of Alec Holland and keeps it animated in his charred carcass in hopes of reuniting him with Swamp Thing before any bad shit goes down. That sound about right?

Couldn't have put it better myself!

One of the challenges in starting this series was to make it accessible to new readers, but with various plot threads in each and every direction this can prove to be a rather difficult task. What sort of tactics have you employed in an attempt to tie these together into a cohesive whole?

The opportunity to tie up all these dangling plot threads was actually the thing that attracted me to writing the series in the first place. I think if a story ain't broke, don't fix it - but sometimes, if is broke, do! I think Swamp Thing had maybe drifted a little bit too far from its core appeal. Mark Millar did a brilliant job of putting a capstone on the end of his run, and left the character in a really interesting place - but it's a tough act to follow. Brian K. Vaughan very wisely took the next series off in a completely new direction, and made some smart and interesting choices, but unfortunately the readers just didn't seem to take to Tefe. They wanted the original Swamp Thing back - but he'd become so powerful, so distanced from his former incarnation, it wasn't easy to see how to do that.

The problem of how to resolve these various issues actually gave me the idea for the story itself. In trying to rationalise certain inconsistencies in the continuity, I hit upon a way of resolving them in what is - hopefully! - an interesting and dramatic way. It also allows me to bring new readers up to speed by drawing them into the unfolding story, rather than simply have the characters explain shit to each other for the sake of the readers, so it's all good.

Now let's talk about Swamp Thing's daughter Tefe, whom most readers missed out on completely. Daughter of Swamp Thing and Abby Holland - with John Constantine as a surrogate donor, so to speak - she now has powers that are both plant and flesh-based. Was her birth a result of the intention to create an Elemental spirit to follow in Swampy's footsteps?

Yeah, that's basically it. It's ancient history now, and Tefe's been around for over a decade. I just thought it was high time somebody dealt with the fact that we don't need two Earth Elementals running around the place at once.

How is she affecting 'The Green' in such a way that it's pissing off Swamp Thing? Is it something intentional she's doing or is it merely a result of her existence?

It's wholly unintentional on her part. When Tefe first entered the Green (the "astral plane" of the plant world) in the last series, it looked very different from the way it had always looked previously. It looked like a human city made of plants, with these Jolly Green Giant-type characters wandering around the place. Like the Green was being filtered through her human perceptions.

I figured, maybe it wasn't just Tefe's perception of it that's different - maybe her human nature is actually altering the Green - albeit unwittingly - in ways her dad doesn't much care for. You'll see what I mean in issue two.

One thing about Tefe's powers of flesh seems to suggest that her power could threaten the entire ecological cycle and the relation between animal and nature, it may also turn out to be something so odd it'll turn her Vegan. Can you tell us a little about 'The Red'?

Well, Tefe can manipulate animal flesh as well as plants, so I figured there must be some animal equivalent to the Green. Then I remembered Jamie Delano's run on Animal Man, where Buddy Baker is killed on the road and ends up in this weird psychedelic landscape of the "morphogenic field". I can't remember whether or not he actually called it the Red, but it seemed like a nice fit, so I stole it.

Tefe's flesh-based powers have never really been explored very much, so that's something I'll be doing in the new series. There's doesn't seem to have been much consistency to her powers - as a baby she brought her dead mother back to life, and grew a new body for herself to kill this all-powerful angelic assassin... but in the last series she couldn't even bring a dead animal back to life. So I figure, Tefe's a messed-up kid who doesn't even know what she's capable of any more, and she'll start to test the boundaries of her power.

How did you hook up with artist Enrique Breccia for this series? I know there are a lot of other artists out there who'd love to take a shot at doing Swamp Thing.

Enrique was Vertigo's suggestion, and a damn good one. We'd thrown a lot of names around for possible artists, but Enrique was the perfect fit. His work is genuinely creepy.

Your run on Swamp Thing was originally meant as a mini-series, but has turned into an ongoing with Will Pfeiffer taking over following you. Could you see yourself returning to the title at some point? I mean, you've got a young girl with powers beyond her understanding just yearning to be the centre of a tale of self discovery... you could even call it 'Where The Wild Roses Grow'.

I only had the one Swamp Thing story I really want to tell right now, but yeah, I'd be happy to take another stint in the future - assuming anyone wants me to!

As for future works, having got to play around with John Constantine some more, are there any yearnings to take on a Hellblazer arc at some point?

I love John Constantine, he's the best character in comics - along with Batman, I guess. So yeah, I'd love to write Hellblazer at some point, but I don't think I'm ready yet. I think I need to have more confidence in my own abilities as a writer before I tackle something so character-driven. Plus I'm really enjoying Mike Carey's run, and I'm in no hurry to see him leave the title.

Since going exclusive with DC, there's been talk of television series, reviving old Sci-Fi characters, and more or less playing around with some of DC's hero universe characters. Have things started falling in place for your DCU projects, or do you continue to find yourself going through troves of old DC and Wildstorm characters, searching for those ripe for revival?

I seem to have become the "Revamp Guy"! DC asked me to revamp The Losers, then they asked me to revamp Swamp Thing, and now I'm revamping something else for the DCU. That's fine by me - as I said, I enjoy "fixing" things - but I'm also developing my own projects. It's all about getting the balance right. It's like how Martin Scorsese says he chooses his projects - "one for me, one for the studio."

I enjoy writing company-owned characters, just as long as they aren't too bogged-down in continuity. Dan Didio's been great in that respect, he's more interested in me telling a good story than worrying about 30 years' worth of continuity. So yeah, it's all coming together. I'm looking forward to playing with some of DC's bigger guns and reaching a wider readership.

It's funny, I never really read superhero comics when I was a kid, and even kind of sneered at them when I got into Vertigo stuff in my 20s. But now that I'm actually writing professionally, I've discovered that I really enjoy writing all-out, balls-to-the-wall action comics, and I'm actually quite drawn to the idea of writing some superhero stuff. But if they could just do something about the costumes. I mean, I can write superhero comics that don't seem trapped in the Fifties, but they have to look like they aren't trapped in the Fifties, y'know... ?

And the television prospects? I hear DC used your trip to last year's San Diego convention as an opportunity to meet with certain execs.

Yeah, I pitched a few movie and TV ideas, which they asked me to write up. But my monthly commitments to DC don't really leave me with any time for outside projects at the moment, so I've kind of put the brakes on the film and TV stuff for now. The worst thing that could happen would be that they commission a bible and a pilot which I haven't got time to write - or at least to write well - so I've decided to wait until my exclusive contract expires before I try and crack Hollywood.

That being said, I still have a thousand comics projects in mind which wouldn't work in any other medium, so it's not like I'm just using comics as stepping-stone to Hollywood. Comics will always be my first love.

Considering your Judge Dredd/Aliens series was well received, and your current contract with DC... have you still got the urge to do a Judge Dredd/Superman series?

Yeah, but DC don't have an urge to commission it. But that's OK, Superman's their guy, after all. I must admit I find it quite hard coming up with ideas for Superman stories - my worldview is probably just too cynical - but that's why Dredd would make such a great foil for him to react against. You put Superman in the regular DCU, and I'm like, "Why doesn't he have Lex Luthor arrested? Why doesn't he end world hunger? Why doesn't he just end war?" And of course the only answer is, "to maintain the status quo", and I'm not really interested in maintaining the status quo. But yeah, I'd love to write Superman once I've come up with the right story - and I'd love for Trevor Hairsine to draw it!

As for Batman, I'd love to do a Bruce Wayne-versus-Lex Luthor story. These two incredibly intelligent, ruthless industrialists with vast resources at their disposal, battling it out for the fate of the planet. I have some ideas along those lines which could be a lot of fun.

How does it feel jumping to the other side of the fence, going from editor to writer? How do you see the two roles in contrast to each other? Do you feel one was more difficult then the other?

Writing is an absolute piece of piss compared to editing. I hated editing. Horrible, stressful, unsatisfying, infuriating work. I think it probably taught me a lot about writing, though - about how comics storytelling works from the inside - so in that respect it was genuinely invaluable experience. But I'd never go back to it, unless it was to publish my own stuff.

It's also taught me to respect a good editor, because now I know how hard their job is. A good editor lets you know what he wants, and helps you do your best work - which includes telling your straight when something you've written sucks. I'd be quite happy for Will Dennis to edit everything I write. A bad editor, on the other hand, just says, "this isn't really working for me, try something else" - just gives you the runaround without telling you what they want. It's a good way to waste whole months of your life, and it drives writers crazy.

Having been an editor one advantage you gained was simply having access to a number of great artists. Do you feel any sort of allegiance to your old 2000AD buddies when starting up a project for a North American publisher?

I don't think I'd ever suggest working with a particular artist solely to do a favour for a mate - he'd still have to be the right artist for the job. But fortunately I'm mates with some excellent artists! It's like casting a movie - it's not just a question of whether the person in question's a good actor, it's also a question of whether he's the right guy for the role. Like Ian Holm is a fantastic actor, but you wouldn't want him to play The Punisher, y'know?

But yeah, most of the guys from 2000 AD I've recommended for work have already worked for the Big Two one way or another - Trev Hairsine on Ultimate Six, Frazer Irving on The Authority. It was actually Karen Berger who suggested Jock for The Losers, believe it or not. At the time I was trying to line him up for Swamp Thing, which gives you some idea how long it's been in development. I'd still love to do a big fat black-and-white manga book with Henry Flint, and I think Andy Clarke would rule on a Wildstorm Universe book. Of course, there's still also a very long list of non-2000AD artists I'm dying to work with...

What sort of differences do you tend to see regarding the U.K. market vs. the North American market?

What UK market? If you exclude the kiddie comics, there's not much going on here beyond 2000AD and Warhammer. We all had high hopes for Com.X, but their output has been minuscule. It's a shame. Jock and I actually pitched them some ideas a couple of years ago, so we could have been making money for them right now instead of for DC. Way it goes, I suppose.

2000AD is a strange little anomaly. I think the idea of a weekly anthology comic is a hopeless anachronism in today's world, it's completely outdated. Nobody would ever dream of launching 2000AD today. I really think it needs to reinvent itself if it's going to survive into the medium to long term.

Well 2000AD aims at an older audience, the people who go into convenience stores for smokes, condoms and lotto tickets whereas something like Shonen Jump aims at the kids who go into convenience stores 'cause they're brats whose parents aren't watching over them.

Of course, that's how 2000AD started out - as adventure comics aimed at 8-year old boys that their parents wouldn't approve of. As those boys grew up, 2000AD grew up with them, so the average reader is now about 30. But sadly nobody has tried to fill the gap in the market it left behind, namely adventure comics for young kids and teenagers. When I was at Egmont - the previous publisher of 2000AD - the prevailing wisdom was that "kids don't want to read adventure comics". To which my reply was always, "How do you know? Nobody's publishing any!" To which their reply was, "Well if there was a market for them, somebody would be publishing them already." And round and round it went. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy...

And of course manga is currently responding to exactly that hole in the market. I think we in the mainstream comics community should be ready to respond when the manga bubble inevitably bursts - not to fill the hole in the market with more manga, but with whatever the kids are going to want next.

Now Losers is most often referred to as a summer blockbuster, personally I think trying to budget this as a movie would make Richard Donner shit his pants. Did you intend to make the Losers in the vein of any particular flicks? Heist films for instance?

It started out very much as a light-hearted caper story, but once the political angle came in it started to get a little darker and more serious. I was very conscious of smart, entertaining modern crime movies like Heat, Three Kings, Way Of The Gun, Ronin and The Usual Suspects while I was developing it.

It's funny, when a friend of mine read the original pitch he said it sounded kind of like the A-Team, and I just dismissed him out of hand. I should have listened!

Now the first arc of Losers has strong political observations, the sort of stuff that's widely known and just plain emphasizes the sordid side of the entire rich and white man complex, but at the same time is also widely ignored by many and a lot of people will take offence at even the suggestion of wrongdoing, let alone having the facts right in front of their faces. First, I think you integrate it very well in that it's one part of a very quick pace; and second, do you feel having an outsider's perspective into American politics gives you an advantage when it comes to exploring the subject?

It's not so much about American politics as American foreign policy. The guys at Vertigo asked me to make my original pitch more political, more controversial, which has made it all the richer. At first it was just a light-hearted caper story about these ex-military types pulling a heist.

One reason for making the CIA the bad guys is simply that your heroes really have to be the underdogs, and the American establishment is the biggest dog around. But yeah, there is a degree to which I'm just fucking pissed off by the way Bush - or rather, the guys who tell him what to do - are running roughshod over international law, human rights and America's own Constitution, and The Losers is to some degree a reaction to that. It's a political conspiracy thriller disguised as a big, dumb action caper.

At the same time, I wouldn't want the characters to end up being nothing more than mouthpieces for my own political views, so I'm adding a degree of moral ambiguity to the actions both of the CIA and the Losers themselves. Most of the Losers themselves are conservatives - the Special Forces aren't big on wishy-washy lefty liberals like me!

Have you had to deal with any anti-Losers sentiment because of the political integration?

Not even in the slightest. I was really expecting to receive a few hate mails, but everyone seems to really like the fact that someone's acknowledging these ugly home truths. I think the fact that it's an entertaining action story probably helps to sweeten the pill, but there are obviously a lot of Americans who feel the same sense of outrage at the "Bush Doctrine" as I do. I'm just pointing out that American foreign policy has been doing exactly this kind of thing for half a century now, regardless of whether the American people were actually informed about it or not.

What made you want to revive these particular characters in the first place?

DC asked me to! I'd never heard of The Losers, and I've still never read a single issue of the original. I just took the title and threw the rest away.

For a reputed 'summer blockbuster' style comic you certainly did your research. What might a Losers bibliography look like?

First thing I read was Whiteout: the CIA, Drugs and the Press by Cockburn and St. Clair, and See No Evil, the memoirs of veteran CIA agent Robert Baer. In fact, the character of Stegler - who appears in Losers #9 - owes a certain amount to Baer, and I was glad to hear that George Clooney is apparently making a movie based on the book.

Most of the research books I picked up I haven't even read yet, including Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude - also by Robert Baer - and Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace: How We Got to Be So Hated by Gore Vidal.

My main source of research has been the internet - websites like CounterPunch, From The Wilderness, TruthOut, Project Censored and so forth. That and just Googling for specific facts as and when I need them. Anything you need to know, you can find on out in thirty seconds - what payload a Chinook CH-47 can carry, how many British and American private military contractors are operating in Iraq, tectonic maps, you name it.

The difference between rebels and terrorists: depends which side you're on. Do you think that's an accurate view of the Losers?

Absolutely. Like France, America is a revolutionary nation - it was born in rebellion against authority. The American civilian militias didn't wear uniforms, and they used the same hit-and-run guerrilla tactics which the Native American population had previously used on them. And it worked - just as the same "cowardly" tactics are now being used by the Iraqi resistance. We call the American Revolutionaries freedom fighters, but the British Empire would have viewed them as terrorists. As you say, it all depends which side you're on. The Losers are fighting their own modern-day revolutionary war, but this time the enemies of America are both foreign and domestic.

I like that you brought up the connection with France in that there's a scary chain of hate through America directed towards them. Even the Ultimates version of Captain America appears to be a bigot when it comes to the French. Which is interesting considering the statue of liberty, a gift from the French, and the rumoured symbolism of what the torch held over them implies.

The Bush regime's idea of "foreign policy" - which seems to boil down to "do as we say or we'll kill you" - stands in direct opposition to everything the Statue Of Liberty represents. That's why we put it on the cover of issue three. It's like, we're supposed to be the good guys, y'know? Good guys don't start wars, they finish them. That whole "freedom fries" thing made me sick to my stomach, and I think most of the rest of the world felt the same way. Power, ignorance, arrogance and hypocrisy make a dangerous combination when embodied in the supposed "Leader Of The Free World".

A title which the rest of the world doesn't recognize anyway.

As you see them, what really motivates the Losers? Is it a sense of duty? Revenge? Desperation? Naiveté?

It's different for each of them. For Clay it's all about revenge, which for him is a function of ego. Cougar has ghosts he wants to lay to rest. Pooch just wants to live free with his family. Jensen's in it for cheap thrills. And Aisha... well, you'll just have to wait and see about her!

What's in the future for the Losers?

You'll start to see more ambiguity and intrigue creeping in, as the Losers begin to learn just how huge Max's mysterious Project really is. You'll see more of the CIA's own point of view, as represented by Sanderson and Stegler. And you'll finally get to see what happened to the Losers in Afghanistan when they were supposedly "killed", and just what it was that set them on the path they're on.

And, y'know, Clay will scowl a lot and smoke some cigarettes. And stuff will explode. A lot.

Thanks Andy. For more on Andy and his upcoming projects be sure to visit Andy Diggle.com, also check out the Andy Diggle Forum.

Jonathan Ellis is Co-Editor in Chief of PopImage


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