DONNA BARR: "DO WHAT I'M DOING. IF YOU DARE".
From DESERT PEACH to STINZ, an interview with Donna Barr by Jonathan Ellis.

Donna Barr was first published in 1986 and by 1997, her books were sold from Japan to Australia. Recently, her readership expanded into Eastern Europe, including Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia. Her awards include San Diego Comicon International's Inkpot, Cartoonists Northwest's Toonie, and the Washington Press Association's Communicator Of Excellence for Fiction. Donna Barr is one of the leading female authors in her field. She has taught, lectured and spoken from Paris to San Diego, and appeared on radio and television. Donna also has the tenancy to have a bunch of weird cranks impersonate her. Donna lives in Washington State, with her husband, Daniel, a gang of spoiled cats, and Kitsap County's largest Deodar Fir. Recently she took the time to have a few words with PopImage.

This is where Donna was born:

Everett, Washington. 1952

This was Donna's 1st published work:

"Andri's Christmas Shoes," Eclipse Comics, 1985

These are Donna's schools:

Rosehill Elementary, Olympic View Junior High, Cascade Senior High, Ohio State University (BA in German Language and Literature), Army Basic Training and Teletype School.

These are the best and worst tricks Donna ever played on someone:

Best trick was when I hadn't told my family I was being transferred to Fort Lewis, an Army post near my hometown, and managed to surprise each and every one separately. Including my sister's large German Shephard/Lab cross, Snoopy, who at first did not know me and came at me with her teeth out. You never saw such a contrite dog. You never saw anyone come so close to pissing herself.
Worst trick: Sitting in the Madigan Hospital teletype room, arranged for the front desk to call me and hang up. Became involved in a one-sided conversation that went, "Madigan teletype room. Yessir. Yes, he's here." (Everybody in the adjoining BOQ office perks up, including a Frank-Burns-like Specialist Fairburn, and our very nice N.C.O., Jerry Gift, who is standing at the first Xerox machine I ever saw). "Yessir, I can get him for you. Just a message? Certainly, sir." (My face gets very odd, and I hang up). "Uh -- that was OB-GYN." (Dead expectant silence). "For you, Fairburn -- (pause while Fairburn looks confused). "Your rabbit died."
We had to pound Jerry on his back, he was curled up over the Xerox, laughing so hard (a dangerous situation, as he was very skinny, and sometimes suffered a collapsed lung). My best joke ever -- I managed to be completely deadpan all the way through. Something I don't normally manage.

These are a few of Donna's trials and tribulations of making her way into the industry, plus some personal beliefs on why the industry is in a slump:

I've had no real trials and tribulations (then again, if there is no blood and nobody's dying, I don't consider it a trial). I write what I want, say what I want, and hunt for my own readership. I recognize that the only way to have a permanent, loyal readership is to write and draw in a mature, educated manner. My demographic consists of People With A Little More Education, regardless of age, gender or how they got their education (formal or Hard Knocks).
I feel sorry for the industry, which has never recognized that art and writing together, drawn books, is an incredibly sophisticated high art, and can be treated as such. As long as it treats artists and writers as throw-aways, and caters to one narrow audience, it will always be in a slump. Done deal.

And this is how Donna broke into the biz:

I was attending a Sci-fi Fantasy Convention in Bellingham, Washington, with copies of the original "Andri's Christmas Shoes," a little hand-bound volume in the layout style of a medieval illuminated manuscript, but in my own Occidental/Oriental style of art, and my medieval writing. Steve Gallacci, the Publisher of Thoughts and Images, bought two of the volumes, and gave one to Lex Nakashima, who was taken with it, and hired me to finish the story in the grid-style of a drawn book, for Eclipse Comics.

What was it that made you want to get into comics?

I didn't. It just happened.

Why did you decide to tell your stories in comic format, as opposed to prose, novels, etc?

I don't tell them in the "comic" format. "Comic" is an incomplete and archaic term. I am the author of drawn books. I tell them in this format because I can write and I can draw. I do it because I can. Most people are not capable of this highly demanding art form, with its long and rigorous apprenticeship.

What was the inspiration for DESERT PEACH?

It was originally a pun, on a color. The "DESERT PEACH" MUST be the gay brother of The Desert Fox, Germany's great WWII field commander, Erwin Rommel.

What is the importance of having a Gay lead character in todays market?

I have no idea. My lead character is gay because he wants to be gay. I do not consider markets when I am writing. I write what I must, then find the readers, there is a market for everything, and one need merely work to find it. If we stick to the present markets, we freeze our industry in place, with no possibilities for growth in the future.

How do you approach a story when attempting to make social-political, sexual, prejudice, and other important comments?

I simply use what I've seen and know, do deep and ongoing research, and use a lot of quotes from the mouths of people around me. For example, in "Lady Luck," DESERT PEACH #22, the horrible things that the men in the military say about women are direct quotes.

What is the importance of approaching such subjects with a sense of humour?

Humor is the strongest horse. It can carry, get across and pound home points that no "serious" book can manage. And it can be a stunning foil for tragedy. The Europeans and the Orient have never forgotten this. Americans, however, have bowed servily to the demands of "market," and cut their art up into Genres, the mark of lazy agents and marketers, who are paid for doing nothing, and who expect the artists and authors to make up for their inability to hunt down and use markets. Most of these people could be dumped, and no one would know the difference. It would certainly free up the money to go to the authors, who could then pay for the travel, interviews, and distribution pushes that they have to do anyway, and for which they are never properly reimbursed. Why have agents and marketers anyway, if they don't work?

What inspirations did you have when in STINZ you showed the "maturation from a young, rambunctious colt into a husband, father, and leader in his community"?

Don't we all grow up and get old? And die? And lose our loved ones? It's a natural development.

For new readers, what is DESERT PEACH and what is STINZ all about?

The DESERT PEACH is about Erwin Rommel's gay brother, but more about his world, and the first 90 years of the 20th century (his lifespan). I usually use the time he spent in the Afrika Korps as a kind of springboard for all the commentary upon the human condition.
The character very soon insisted that every incident in the series be based on something that happened in World War Two. No matter how odd the series has seemed to be, there's nothing in there without some kind of historical basis, no matter how rare, arcane, or even dangerously classified. Readers from all over the world have responded in sending in new information, based on the experiences of their relatives, or of themselves, that fits in and reflects perfectly the tongue-in-cheek tone (no pun intended) of the Peach himself.
In a way, the Peach did and does still exist. There are, and always have been, and pray God always will be, men of a certain cool dandified uprightness, who regardless of the situation, will insist on retaining a sense of style, a sense of humor, and a sense of their own light-hearted mortality.
Stinz Loewhard. He's a centaur.
He is nothing like the classical half-man, half-horse creatures of Greek myth. He is his own man and his own horse, in a world that in everything except the form of him and his people is just as everyday as our own. There are no dragons or observable Gods in his world, any more than in ours, unless you count the dragon of his own temper and his own problems.
Stinz gets married and has kids, or colts, just like anybody. He gets himself drafted into an army, survives a war, and ends up being voted in as the Mayor of his home village. People are used to him, and to his people. But once he leaves his sheltering home valley, he must deal with the fact that, to most of the world's humans, or "two-leggers" as Stinz would call them, he is not normal. He has hooves and a tail, and has to buy horseshoes.
Come meet his family, his friends and his enemies. You've met them before, just not with this many feet.

You have a beautiful art style, who are your inspirations?

Thank you! Most of them are anonymous, and many have been dead for centuries, some for millennia.
Cave art, tomb art, manuscript and religious art. The only persons I can name who have actually influenced me have been Yoshitoshi (The Ghost Painter), and Paul Brown, who did very powerful quick drawings of horses in the 1940's.

Where did the influence of mythological characters begin?

Honestly? As a very young child, I saw "Fantasia" and I ran right to the library to check out all the books on Greek mythology. It started my mania for folk tales, religious (mythological) tales of the world. My favorite folk tales, and the most fierce, are Tibetan. The ones which seem simplest, yet are imbued with a cold, deep spiritualism, are the Inuit.

Interesting, I for one have always found the Japanese and Native American cultures (historical) the most interesting. I think it's because of how the civilizations developed independently of other nations.

Those are two that interest me a lot, too.

The interview games; 1) Of choice; What is your drink of choice?

Hot tea with milk. Or a good, not-very-sweet Margarita.

Tetley Orange Pekoe I feel is the best, that and Shanghai green tea.

Tetley has a nice British Blend, too. My life was saved during a writing tour of Great Britain, with Roberta Gregory. Or both our lives, should I say. We were very sick, nobody on the trains wanted to sit anywhere near us. But everyplace we went, the first thing folks asked us was if we'd like a cup a tea. They meant it, too. We got into Nottingham at 2:00 am, and when they asked about the tea, they meant it. It was hot and hot, rich and black, and after the cold and wet of the travel, it was like sucking blood back into our veins. Now I know what vampires must feel like.

Restaurant of choice?

Oriental. Over here, the only one really available is part of a chain, the Panda Inn, and only one of them. We don't eat out a lot.

Me too, but personally I've found that one of my fav. places is actually getting Chinese take out from a very small place within the food court at my local mall. Good food, good price, and fast. Just goes to show, you don't need a fancy place to get a good meal.

Favorite restaurant moment: Glasgow mall, food-court upstairs. Offering at a fast-food shop: "Haggis, tatties and neeps, (Scottish offal pudding, mashed potatoes and mashed swedes), 3 pounds." It was spitting hot, on a plate hot enough to juggle, and wonderful. Katsup is very good on haggis. It is a form of meat loaf, isn't it?

Movies?

"Kwaidan" is my overall favorite, for photography, colour, editing, narrative, acting, use of light. And of course, The "Seven Samurai," "Yojimbo," "Sanjuro," "The Apartment," "La Dolce Vita". Anything by Kurosawa or Billy Wilder. "Strafbattalion 999" (some of the best dialogue and most realistic treatment of warfare on the WWII Eastern Front you will see, including the German soldiers' traditional method of fragging a bad or dangerous officer: Knock him cold, then stick his head up over the edge of the trench for the snipers). "The Searchers," "Fort Apache," a lot of the John Ford/John Wayne movies (John Wayne can't act without Ford, but with him, he's classic, especially his inimitable performances of grief). "Unforgiven." ANYTHING with Christopher Walken in it (Watch for his Roger Rabbit and Harpo Marx moments at the end of "Sleepy Hollow"). "Pulp Fiction" (Two very sweet romances, a buddy movie and a classic screwball comedy). True Romance. Fargo. "A Simple Plan," which I will NOT watch again, it is too close to my own nightmares. The same for "Chasing Amy", it's too close to the comic book industry. I watched it innocently two days after getting back from the San Diego Comicon, and went into a fetal position, watching through my fingers and getting sick to my stomach. When I wasn't giggling or shrieking. Anything by Quentin Tarantino. Spike Lee Joints. Films I run over and over again, because they make a good background while I'm inking: "Tombstone." "Thunderheart." "The Prophecy." "Beetlejuice."

Books?

"Tristram Shandy." Gogol's "Dead Souls." Melville, especially "Bartleby The Scrivener," Shakespeare, Chaucer, Twain, Kipling, Lafcadio Hearne, the Russians, research books and histories, microbiology (don't ask -- I don't know why), astronomy, mythologies and religions and all their gray areas, cookbooks (THE clue to any society is what they eat and how they cook it).

Music?

Chinese traditional music, The Pogues, some of the '80's and '90's female artists, any sort of folk music. BAGPIPES of course (tried to play them -- lungs too damaged). Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, yeah, the whole '60's thing. Do I HAVE to say Beatles? Isn't that obvious? JethroTull. Punk Polka, no, it's good!

2) The name game, here's how it works, I say the name of a certain creator and you say whatever comes to mind:

Roberta Gregory: A genius! (Then again, a close personal friend, too!).

Scott McCloud: He has a cute family.

Stan Lee: Is he the 'nuff said guy? I think I read one of his books when I was a kid.

Jack Kirby: Only person who agreed with me when I told Scott McCloud that, since it had closure, panel gutters, dialogue and panels, The Stations Of The Cross ARE a comic strip. Scott acted like he thought Jack and I were going to be struck by lightning, and he didn't want to be in the same room.

Will Eisner: Nice old guy. I will never open my mouth again around Jeff Smith about getting him a throne. Jeff takes jokes SERIOUSLY.

Howard Chaykin: Loves me because I have a bad attitude. No clue why he said so.

Howard Cruse: A perfect gentleman. Nice style, too. Hard worker. Fearless.

Robert Crumb:Robert: "This -- This -- what makes you write like this?" Me: "What makes you draw headless women with big tits?" Robert: "Touche."

Trina Robbins: Nice lady. Hard-working, cheerful, and very prompt.

Dave Sim: A good guy to go drinking with. A real nice drunk, and a perfect gentleman (this is not a back-handed compliment; very few people, especially guys, are nice when they're drunk).

Colleen Doran: A nice person. Hard worker. Good marketing head.

Jill Thompson: CASTLE WAITING, right? Nice style, beautiful use of the pencil, love the little head-demon!

How has your world wide recognition affected your work?

I guess I do have a form of that now. Hasn't affected my work. I keep slogging along the same old stubborn path.

What's your dream project...

I win the lottery and hire a secretary and a hotshot promoter, somebody hungry who gets out there and PROMOTES. I already have a webguy in Austria, who works for ART (and does great work, check him out and hire him for money at http://www.stinz.com)

...If you could work with any companies...

Don't need 'em. Just hire me an ad manager and secretary. And have a huge advertising budget! And a much nicer studio. Boy, somebody should sort through this place...

...characters...

Mine.

...writers, artists...

Don't need 'em. Got one of each (me).

... no restrictions, no rules...

Don't have 'em now.

...complete creative freedom...

GOT that now.

...crossover as many characters from as many different companies as you wanted without any complaints...

Wouldn't be interested. Done little jams for the fun of it, or for charity. Been there, done that.

...put together whatever creative teams you wanted, and no one would stop you, what would you do?

I AM my creative team. And who's stopping me now?

Some quick Q's; Favourite mainstream characters?

Uncle Toby in Tristram Shandy

Most influential Author?

Rudyard Kipling.

Artist?

French Cave Art.

Favourite old school artist? Writer?

Yoshitoshi. Laurence Stearne.

Most under appreciated creator currently in the biz?

Colin Upton.

Worst fanboy experience?

One looney woman ended up sending hate mail and threatening me with all sorts of legal garbage (why do fans worship at the feet of lawyers, and the IRS?), because she had been threatening her boyfriends with forged hate letters (supposedly from the boy-friends to each other!), and they caught her, and showed me the letters, and I told her if she was going to pull crap like that, I would prefer she stay away from me. I knew the boyfriends, sad, harmless, nice nerds. Dumb enough to sleep with her, but NOT the threatening-letter type. Woman was a complete loon. She ran around impersonating me for a while, picking up perq's, free tickets and such, so some people think I am short, pigeon-toed, fat, hump-backed (no, literally) and walk with a cane. Because of another fan impersonating me, some people think I have Cystic Fibrosis, and again because of her, they think I am dead. Latest sighting of fan pretending she was me and offering to sign my books, "Slim, blonde, elfish, and definitely cruisable."
I would like whatever perqs these people are picking up by pretending to be me.

Proudest body of work?

THE ERSATZ PEACH, a collection of Desert Peach stories by other writers, because the proceeds go to The Chicken Soup Brigade, an AIDS comfort and support group in Seattle.

Advice to those trying to make it in the Biz today?

Oh dear. How to become a Hire-And-Fire? I have no idea. God forbid. I only know how to write for what you think is important, and to try to help people. People have come out because of my books. Jews have gotten over the demand that they must hate Germans to be "Real Jews." Germans have been happy to see an American who is at least TRYING to write about their culture as though they're people, instead of something cardboard out of Spielberg.

What has been your favourite book to work on?

Again, sometimes I hate 'em, sometimes I love 'em. Depends on my mood.

Current titles everyone SHOULD be reading?

Roberta Gregory's work, and Colin Upton's BUDDHA ON THE ROAD. The latter is incomparable genius, rich, deeply research, moody, hilarious. Somebody should pick up the series and launch it again.

Favourite character(s), title(s) to hopefully some day work on?

I have no wish to work on somebody else's work. On my second-grade report card, it literally said, "Donna does not play well with others". Then again, neither did Mark Twain. (I also used to Run With Scissors).

Comics journalism, in any form, how important is it?

Well, when it's the Comics Journal, it's pseudo-underground drivel by people who don't get out of The Little Blue House enough. Or Iconoclast, that judges work on how many marketing toys you offer with an issue. But you knew that. When it's in Hogan's Alley, it's mature, intelligent, even-tempered and with an interest in the history and the future of the art-form. Wish there was more than that.

You've just been given a chance to rework the industry, starting with the major publishers and distribution companies, what do you do, what DO you do?

Three simple rules:
1. Promote the art form as an art-form, and not fan publications; promote the artist/writer who delivers the entire original and piquant work, instead of the hire-and-fire teams.
2. Produce BOOKS on a BOOK schedule, not on a periodical or magazine schedule.
3. Gut the useless middlemen, get out and really sell to a truly original market.
Do what I'm doing. If you DARE.

Now you offer your fans a free viewing of STINZ: SLAVERY & FREEDOM free online, you must really appreciate your fans, what kind of connection do you have with them/feel towards them?

I try to answer all reader mail. For this, email has been a godsend. But I don't neglect snail mail either. Everybody who contacts me is attended to as a customer, not a consumer. My priorities as an author and publisher go like so: First the work, then the readers, then the retailers. Be true to the work, and everything else falls into line.

And now... Plug time! This is where you plug as many things as you want, comics, websites, movies, really nice hats, novels, anything old, new, current and upcoming, your collection of Degrassi junior high videotapes, where to buy your books, scripts, and whatever else. Anything that could somehow lead towards a big thick wad of cash in your pocket, and then we, the reader, go out and spend until our wrists hurt from going through some many back issues and our credit cards are suffering burn marks.

Oh, nice! Look for stinz.com Contact me at donnabarr@silverlink.net My website is being updated again -- we're working toward getting credit-card capability at last, which will make it much easier for the foreign customers. Write me for a free catalog at Donna Barr, 1318 N. Montgomery, Bremerton, WA 98312-3056 Read Patrick O'Brian's (William Patrick Russ) whole series (he just died early this year).
Where to buy my books: any bookstore can order my books, referring to the ISBN number, from me or from Cold Cut or Diamond. Cold Cut has all the back-orders (comics@coldcut.com). Most comic shops carry it, or will carry it. If a shop is not cooperative, contact me, I keep a big list of cooperative shops. All around the world, from New Zealand to Japan. The long way.

Donna Barr

On behalf of PopImage, I would like to thank Donna for participating in this interview, and would like to remind you all that; HERE AT LAST! Coming in March 2000: "Bosom Enemies" -- the first 64-page book. Coming in April 2000: "Out Of The East" -- The Desert Peach #29. Visit Donna's site for even more at stinz.com

Jonathan Ellis is Interviews Editor of PopImage.

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